Curse

DiogoSilva · Mar 19, 2011, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosaki129

So your definition of an Elementalist is that it doesn't do BIG damage with 1 spell but its a profession that does casts 2-3 spells rather than 1 spell to get the BIG damage?

It will be equally good, that's what matters. The new IL might not fit so well into the elementalist's theme, but oh my, if only that was the biggest problem with the profession! But alas, it is not. An alternative could be, what, increase the damage from the current version but make it 2sec cast time? Isn't that what 50% of ele's spells already do, though? Besides, it's the casting time that makes the difference between chain and invoke, imo.

When it comes to damage, the biggest, most monumental problem with the eles is the armor. HM armor is what's broken. Keeping or modifying IL will change nothing, because that's not the source of the problem.

Kurosaki129 · Mar 19, 2011, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

When it comes to damage, the biggest, most monumental problem with the eles is the armor. HM armor is what's broken. Keeping or modifying IL will change nothing, because that's not the source of the problem.

Hence why i laugh when people take Ele as nukers in hard mode

DiogoSilva · Mar 19, 2011, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosaki129

Hence why i laugh when people take Ele as nukers in hard mode

Yes, when I group with people for the zaishen quests, they sometimes get surprised that I do not have enough nuking skills in my bar. It's because of this that I am usually the one forming/ leading the parties for the zaishens. Or else, I get in a party with 3 eles and 2 rangers... For HM... (It happens every day.)

EDIT: I think with the new attunements, I'll stop taking AoR as a cover enchant. Yes, not many people still do that. But I like being more stable with my build. Even for RA, as you either fight necros that remove all your enchants at once, or it doesn't matters much having any covers then. Especially with the mind blast build, for its extra energy management. Yay, one extra skill slot for me!

Mouse at Large · Mar 19, 2011, 12:38 AM // 00:38

This has been discussed to death in the ele forum and elsewhere. In HM eles basically.......suck compared to other caster classes.

And Anet still chooses to ignore the best of the well thought out solutions proposed

DiogoSilva · Mar 19, 2011, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse at Large

This has been discussed to death in the ele forum and elsewhere. In HM eles basically.......suck compared to other caster classes.

And Anet still chooses to ignore the best of the well thought out solutions proposed

Intensity lolo...
.
.
loool

But at least it seems they are aware that the eles do need something better, even if that didn't work very well with the intensity revamp. I can't wait for the next developer update. I want to see them explain the change to the attunements. Yes, the reason is very clear and predictable, but who knows, maybe they might admit it is the start of a wave of (small, shy) little buffs to ele's skills? Am I being too optimistic?

psycore · Mar 19, 2011, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kityn

If the Consume Soul change is for pvp and pve, I can see why Anet changed it for pve. How it works as now it will instantly kill a summons either minions,summoning stones and asura summons. At least with this change those summons won't instantly die. Sure the damage is AoE now but with the new minion UI panel and with summons showing in the party UI Panel it will be much easier to keep them alive.

yes but it is just ONE summon per 5 seconds, now if you come up against multiple mobs utilising this your minions and spirits and summons are pretty much toast. In HM as mentioned previously that will be ~130 dmg every 2.5 seconds to every single summon in the area.

Kunder · Mar 19, 2011, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycore

yes but it is just ONE summon per 5 seconds, now if you come up against multiple mobs utilising this your minions and spirits and summons are pretty much toast. In HM as mentioned previously that will be ~130 dmg every 2.5 seconds to every single summon in the area.

To put it another way, the speed at which all of the high level fire eles in the game melt unsupported or low level minions? Consume Soul rits now are just as big of a brick wall.

Losing 1 minion at a time was never a problem, you always had another 9 or more to back it up. Spirits were never a big problem since they stayed in back anyways, and summons were just silly toys in the first place. Now your spirits will take damage even when the enemy is targeting something 20 feet away. Armor of Unfeeling will be required for spirits, and everything but the strongest level 20+ minion armies are toast. It doesn't even trigger minion bombing well, if the enemy uses consume soul on the first minion to reach it the HUGE AoE (in the area, go to GToB to see how bit that is) will kill off the other 9 bone minions that aren't even near the caster

That said, a bit of it of its true power depends on whether it turns out to be armor ignoring or armor respecting damage. If its armor respecting, that means it will be hitting for about 225 damage AoE due to the monster's higher level. If not, its just 150ish in HM which is only a mild rape. Most likely its armor ignoring, but Anet themselves seem to get this detail confused themselves at times (see: derv update).

gremlin · Mar 19, 2011, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooeydark

1. It's Signet of Suffering, not Signet of Corruption.

2. There is no other midline template as powerful as a blood necro, regardless of whether its free elite utility slot is taken away or not. There is no debate about this whatsoever.

I tried to reinforce this in a previous post, as did Lemming, but I feel like I have to point it out again for most of the other posters here.

This

was

a

PvP

balance

update.

It
is
not
just
a
PVP
update
if
it
also
alters
skills
in
PVE

Seems a strange way to write but has a certain impact.

Not complaining about the update but I am sorry you cannot describe something as being totally red in colour if it has black stripes and you cannot say something is just pvp if it is both.

Bandwagon · Mar 19, 2011, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

That's a load of crap. If skill splits hurt the game then Anet would never have done them, however they found that they needed to do skill splits to keep pve viable for the pve'ers and pvp viable for the pvp'ers.

Perhaps I did not phrase it correctly, but its well documented that adding new skills to the system (and splitting skills for PvP effectively adds another skill into the system) deteriorates the client. Sorry that your too ignorant to at least research your sh!t before writing it off as BS.

Jeydra · Mar 19, 2011, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

How is it "clearly" better than searing flames? Burning and spammability on more foes do a lot more for you than 25% AP.

Searing Flames has a lot of drawbacks, including:

1. It's much more widely resisted than Invoke Lightning, e.g. it's completely ineffective against Destroyers. It has its share of monsters vulnerable to it, but there tends to be more monsters that heavily resist it compared to Invoke Lightning (Warriors and Rangers included).

2. It needs to be stacked in a team to be effective. One Elementalist with Searing Flames isn't very powerful.

3. Because it needs to be spammed, SF Eles are more limited when it comes to using skills from the secondary profession. Restoration spells are immediately out, because that would drop SF's damage to very low. Because SF is also more energy intensive, you can't really rely on the Ele to use Prots, too.

4. Finally, Searing Flames is more vulnerable to disruption. Without Fire Attunement, Searing Flames collapses spectacularly. Invoke Lightning suffers as well, but is affected far less. Eating an interrupt hurts Searing Flame's damage and energy much more than Invoke Lightning. And so on and so forth.

A nerf to Invoke Lightning is a definite nerf to this particular niche of hero, sadly. I'd rather it not happen.

Missing HB · Mar 19, 2011, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

It
is
not
just
a
PVP
update
if
it
also
alters
skills
in
PVE

I think he meant that it will have 0 impact on PvE , thus he doesn't consider this as PvE update

*lemming* · Mar 19, 2011, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

It
is
not
just
a
PVP
update
if
it
also
alters
skills
in
PVE

It's a PvP update that happens to not split all of the skills in PvE because no one uses them (besides Invoke, which has derailed this thread for about three pages now).

In English, I believe the word is "collateral."

shoyon456 · Mar 19, 2011, 09:51 AM // 09:51

It looks like they're trying to keep the new Dervish desirable in PvP instead of just returning them to the shunned black sheep they used to be.

Looks reasonable to me.

inscribed · Mar 19, 2011, 10:02 AM // 10:02

The simple solution is to just forget about getting any damage out of ele's and just run monk spells.

Coast · Mar 19, 2011, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Eles are buffed now tho, their attunements are waaay better as before.
Signet of corruption is good now, happy to see it being an elite version of barbed signet.blood necro still strong even with the loss of an elite
Also good to see some tweaks at dervs, just will it be enough?

Del · Mar 19, 2011, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Eles are buffed now tho, their attunements are waaay better as before.

Yeah, because buffing attunements does a huge amount of good for ele dps, doesn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

The simple solution is to just forget about getting any damage out of ele's and just run monk spells.

Leaving things messed up is a great solution.

X-Plosiv · Mar 19, 2011, 11:08 AM // 11:08

One day, after I get married, live another 50 years, and then...while laying in hospital bed, my my my grand grand grand son will come and say "Dad, rangers got buffed!".....
meh

Bright Star Shine · Mar 19, 2011, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-Plosiv

One day, after I get married, live another 50 years, and then...while laying in hospital bed, my my my grand grand grand son will come and say "Dad, rangers got buffed!".....
meh

Your grand grand grand son will call you dad, huh?

Anyway, all I want is ele's either to be buffed up the ass for PvE, or armor levels to be toned down to 60, for every class, to be able to compete with armor ignoring damage. It's ridiculous that Anet has been ignoring this problem for so long now, and they should really do something about it. Also, make some elites at least worth the status of elite.

Mesmer elite skill: hits adjacent or nearby. Almost all of them
Necro: adjacent or nearby.
MONK (I mean, the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO): RoJ, adjacent.
And all of these are armor ignoring and only one of em causes scatter.

Eles: either does ridiculously low damage AND causes scatter on top of it, or it only hits 1-3 targets. Making invoke deal to all adjacent or even nearby would still make it inferior to VoR, Esurge, Wandering Eye, Signet of Clumsiness, Mistrust, etc. (for the record, mistrust rapes)

Mesmer even has a shitton of normal skills that can easily outdamage ele elites. Wandering eye, Mistrust (ok, occasional skills, but know how to use them and thou shalt rape ass), Sig of Clumsiness, Unnat sig, clumsiness, walster's worry, overload + shatter delusions... Necro: defile enchants and it's counterpart.

I would like to see eles get some love and be able to be used as Nukers once more. Instead of being a backline who keeps others alive or a tank in SCs..

Coast · Mar 19, 2011, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Yeah, because buffing attunements does a huge amount of good for ele dps, doesn't it?

Leaving things messed up is a great solution.

They recharge faster a lot and their casttime is reduced to 1sec, pretty huge buff on eles in overal then, I didn't talk about dps.
I've sent anet some solution, maybe they will test it, but that's for later(ele update).

For pvp the attunement change is a big diff, believe me...

gremlin · Mar 19, 2011, 01:11 PM // 13:11

I don't think this thread is being derailed at all as has been suggested, the thread is an announcement of forthcoming changes to skills.
The replies have been comments on what people think of the changes.
Sounds on track to me.

I am being petty when I say its a pve and pvp update but that is because for some reason others are dismissive about others comments.
Mostly it is a pvp update for pvp reasons because as usual some players broke pvp again.
Dismissive because first they say its PVP and then say ok look they only changes some skills people in pve don't use.

Consume soul isn't a pvp change and while it may not be used by the players it will certainly be used against them.

At the moment ray of judgement is the big spirit killer and while you can spread out your spirits to avoid it as soon as you use summon spirits a "pve Skill" your vulnerable.
Its no big deal at the moment but now consume soul will do the same thing and since its instant and not gradual damage will be far worse esp in hard mode.

Players are far more likely to have spirits or minions around them than the AI opposition.

Ok its purely a pvp balance that just happens to attempt to kill off the main ritualist build in pve probably because someone has decided too many people are using it.